If anyone that reads this blog thinks I have any poker wisdom at all, please reexamine your belief system. I was so tickled with my last post that I finally signed up for 2+2 and posted it there. They mostly tore me to shreds.
They made some good points:
1.) Playing A9o here sucks. I mostly agree with them. In 90,000 hands of (winning) limit hold'em with 6 or more players , I've only limped into a pot with A9o when dealt it in the SB 20% of the time. I'm guessing that almost all of that is in an unraised pot. I'd try to figure out how much lower that % is against a raise, but my pokertracker database is getting very very slow. I do think there were exceptional circumstances that made it much better here that it normally would be. But it is hard to conclude that it pushed it past the +/- EV line. I cringed as I made the call, which is usually something that happens on the river, not preflop...
2.) My river play sucks. No doubt.
They made some other points about the play of the hand. Although I disagree with some of them, they are worth checking out. Always good to hear different thoughts about hands.
Several times I was personally insulted. So intense is adamstewart's hatred of me, I conclude he either was my victim in this hand, or he is convinced I killed his mother.
The entire thread is available here. If that link doesn't work, it is posted in the Texas Hold'em General Forum, user name "adspar" post titled "Odd play in a big pot, funny reaction."
I still like my flop bet, which is why I was so excited about the hand in the first place. So excited that I misplayed the river, then misplayed my first 2+2 post. Luckily I don't really care what they think about me, as long as they help me learn.
5 comments:
bleh. just cause some schmoe with a 2+2 account disagrees with your play doesn't make it wrong. for all you know, you're taking shit from raif.
i read that 2+2 thing. i think i am the only one other than you who sees the value of leading out on the flop. i think that sometimes it is the right play to bet the worst hand. the point is you knew what the BB would do, and you manipulated him to help you increase your chance to win the pot. i think it was a great idea, and i dont know why everyone on 2/2 was all fired up about it. oh, i think i remember, probably because they are all wannabe pros who sit around and post on there all day long. and the recite approaches and techniques published by others because they arent good enough to think for themselves.
when you read those responses didnt you hate that one guy(i think his name was also adam). i wanted to kick him in the nuts so bad. you know he is a major tool job. pretty sure i could take him heads up. not to mention at any other organized scored activity. why does he think he is such the man? if he is so awesome like he thinks he should write a book or win a 10K buy-in event instead of posting on 2-2. that guy was a pinner.
scoring update:
sparks 1
d bags on 22 0
yeah, he was amazingly antagonistic. thats why i killed his mother
I like the flop bet too. Isn't one lost aspect here that it causes you opponent to totally and completely misread your hand? He said that he thought the flop mae your hand (in defense of his river bet). Obviously hard to measure in terms of EV, but worth something. You got paid an extra BB because of it.
What I don't understand about the flop bet: Suppose one of the MPs or the button is on A8s or 22 or J9s. This is where it's confusing to me. If one of the MPs or the button calls the 2 bets on the flop, what do you do? You have to call given the pot size based on the backdoor draws alone. But don't you also go "oh crap, I f-ed up"?
yeah frese, in addition to the river bet, the deception value also manifested itself in the comedic exchange after the hand. if i had flipped over a flopped set, he wouldn't have blown up.
if someone else 3bet the flop, i probably have to fold. if someone else coldcalls 2, i still call. the turn would then get tricky. i'd still have an obvious play if i catch a draw to the nut heart, but the beauty of this table was that i didnt think those guys would continue except with the kinds of hands you suggested - hands that destroy all of my equity except the flush equity. so if someone cold calls the flop, i can check-fold turns where i dont catch a good draw.
so if i hadn't bet the flop, not only do i maybe not knock out overcard type hands that take away from my equity, but i also don't give bigger hands like A8 a chance to define themselves. so the bet either buys me equity or buys me valuable information.
thats my theory anyway
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