Rounders and Life

HDouble has used quotes from movies as a framework for poker discussion several times. Bill Simmons once did a pair of articles where he used quotes from Rounders to discuss the 2001-2002 NBA season.

Here's my version (as promised)...


"You don't hear much about guys who take their shot and miss. But I'll tell you what happens to 'em. They wind up humping crappy jobs on graveyard shifts trying to figure out how they came up short."

I took my shot, and I missed. Playing poker for a living just isn't going to work for me any more. Hopefully I'll be able to find a better job than the crappy truck route Mike McD humps.


"Time to time everyone goes bust."

I didn't get cleaned out in a real blood game over at KGB's place. I haven't lost everything I have. I still have 6 months of living expenses plus a small bankroll. I still own my house and car, and my girlfriend hasn't left me (yet). Going bust was never really an option for me. I've approached this in a conservative way, and while that has prevented me from going bust, perhaps it held me back from greater success. Who knows.


"Well my uncle Les says when the money's gone it's time to move on."

Worm's uncle is a master of common sense. My money isn't all gone, but after more than a year it is clear that I'm not going to make much of a living this way. I could probably keep scraping by. And while I've never had grand aspirations of wealth, I'd like to be able to raise my standard of living a bit.


"Now the closest I get to Vegas is West New York, driving this lousy route handed down from Knish to rounders who forget the cardinal fucking rule: always leave yourself outs."

At least I didn't forget the rule. I haven't played well for months, but I've been able to keep getting by because I left myself outs - chasing bonuses, earning rakeback, selling ads on my blogs. And I should have plenty of outs beyond poker. I have a degree from a good school and a few years of experience with a highly respected company.


-"Hey Knish. How are you?"
-"The same."

The awkward exchange between Knish and Mike's girlfriend (did she even have a name? I think I vaguely remember her being called Jo) succinctly drives home how stagnant a poker career can be. Every day you just sit in a chair and fold most of your hands. It gets old.


"Does he look like a man beaten by Jacks?"

One of the funniest quotes of the movie goes to an odd success I've always had with casino poker. I'm very often complimented on my poker skills, praise that I've always judged to be sincere. In some cases it is just because I'm willing to sit there and fold for 3 hours in a row, so when I finally play a hand everyone assumes I must have Aces. (Thus I don't look like a man beaten by Jacks.) But many times I've received compliments from excellent players who would certainly base their opinions on more subtle factors than my patience. And since my results certainly haven't been nearly as spectacular as the praise would seem to warrant, I conclude that I must just give off a good player vibe. I'm not sure if this is in any way useful, but compliments are always nice.


"I'm right on schedule, up $4200. Morning can't get here soon enough."

This quote goes to all the ridiculous expectations of success that people have about poker, myself included. Mike McD has been playing $20/40 stud for a few hours and he casually says that being up over 100 big bets is "right on schedule." Even the best players in the world couldn't expect to make more than a few bets per hour in the easiest of games, but people in the poker community tend to think about their best sessions ever and assume they can project a reasonable win rate based on that. In thousands of sessions of modestly winning poker, I've had very few +100BB sessions in a limit game.


"$220? That's like 11 bets..."

Speaking of ridiculous expectations, taking 11 bets to a limit game is crazy, even if you are base-dealing to a bunch of trust-fund babies. Bankroll management is another area where popular opinion is way off, in my opinion. The "standard" bankroll you'll read about on most websites and in most poker books is 200 to 500 bets for a limit game. I think 1,000 is a much better number for a pro.


"They all know me as a small-timer, but that's about to change."

This quote is when Mike decides to put his entire bankroll on the table in a high-stakes no-limit game. Taking shots at bigger games that your bankroll shouldn't really allow is how a lot of very successful players made their way up through the limits. I think it is a good idea to occasionally take shots, but only under optimum conditions. To me this means:

• The bigger game looks very soft - usually because you recognize several weak players who usually play lower stakes.
• You are feeling on top of your game and have no emotional distractions at all.
• You've been winning a lot lately at your usual stakes.
• You set a clear stop-loss limit

Those are all fairly straightforward parameters. But there are more subjective factors that should also be considered:

• Would losing more money cause you to make bad decisions in the bigger game or your regular game?
• Would exposure to the higher stakes numb you to the smaller stakes of your regular game?
• Will you be able to honestly evaluate the reasons for success or failure over a sample sample size?

Last summer I took a shot at the $15/30 level online when I was meeting all the first set of parameters. But it was the second set that ultimately led to my failure at those stakes, which severely set back my poker career. Actually, I probably still haven't recovered.


"Maybe this is a game can be beat. But you know you can beat the 10/20 at the Chesterfield."

Having a game that you can reliably beat to fall back on makes it a lot easier to take shots at moving up. There are stories of how Phil Ivey and Jen Harmon were 'stuck' for a long time, not able to move past a certain limit. So they kept dropping back down, rebuilding their bankroll and taking another shot. Eventually they beat the bigger game and never looked back. But they might not have been able to make it if not for the ability to beat the smaller game and the willingness to do it.

Knowing what I know now, I'm not sure I've ever had a 10/20 Chesterfield game that I know I can beat (for an hourly rate good enough to make a living). At certain points in my career I thought I did, but I was probably basing that on too small a sample size. I've spent most of the last 6 months bouncing between full-handed and short-handed, limit and no-limit at several different stakes, but never really found a reliable bread-and-butter game.


"Listen, here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in your first half-hour at the table, then you are the sucker."

This quote is for the tools that helped me spot the suckers. Almost every site has a note-taking feature, which is a great starting point. But to play several tables at the same time, I think there are some indispensable software tools. Poker Tracker is a database program that I use to store all my hand histories and sort the information in a useful way. PokerAce and GameTime+ are programs that automatically project your Poker Tracker stats onto the game windows while you play. All are well worth their modest price tags (GT+ is still free I think).

"Man, you're fixin to go down hard. It almost seems like you want to."

Mike finally confronted Worm about his reckless choices, and even though he seemed to know that Worm would drag Mike down with him, he kept going anyway.

Like Mike, I let it happen even though I saw it coming:

2/28/05 I say I'm not quitting my job to become a poker pro.

3/7/05 "To do: Create a resume and post it on Monster and other such places." Never happened.

4/12/05 What I do question is my emotional capacity for coping with adversity.

6/17/05 I concede that I can't play poker more than 20~30 hours per week, and decide I want to fill my time with other productive things.

10/12/05 "When people ask me what I do with my time, I don't really have an answer."

11/15/05 A beautiful woman took quite an interest in me just a few days after my girlfriend dumped me, but I just wanted watch a tape of a chubby Chinese man pretending to be scared of a goofy redneck. She tried to kiss me, but I told her to go away. Looking back on it, I was making some pretty questionable decisions here.

1/20/06 "Anyway, the fact that my prospects for advancing are based more on capital infusions than hard work or skill is probably an indication that I won't be a professional poker player in 5 years."

3/5/06 "I need to figure out a better way to approach poker as long as it is going to be my primary income source."

So I've been noticing problems for at least a year. And then yesterday I wrote this in my diary, which I guess was finally the wake-up call I needed:

5/18/06 "A bunch of municipal workers from Binghamton just beat the shit out of me and my friend. I think my nose might be broken. They took all of my money and I owe $15,000 to the Russian mob tomorrow. I think I'm in trouble. Maybe my teacher can give me some money..."


"I want him to think that I'm pondering a call. But all I'm really thinking about is Vegas and the fucking Mirage."

This quote is for all the times I let something divert my focus from my a hand of poker. From distractions like television and instant messenger, to emotions like frustration and anger, or the hazes from fatigue or alcohol, I let way too many things keep me from making the most profitable decisions.


"This isn't a gunfight. It's not about pride or ego. It's only about money."

While Mike decided to cowboy up and sit back down with KGB, I think I was always pretty good about leaving my ego behind. I certainly let a million things distract me, but I never let my ego get in the way of a financial decision when it came to poker. So I figure I won't let me ego keep me from the financial decision of moving on from poker. Like Joey Knish said, "I'm not playing for the thrill of fucking victory here. I owe rent, alimony, child support. I play for money. My kids eat." If poker can't pay the bills, something else will.


"Now some people might look down on Worm's mechanics, call it immoral. But as Canada Bill Jones says, it is immoral to let a sucker keep his money."

This quote is for the high profile internet players who were recently busted for cheating in tournaments by entering multiple times using several different accounts. What was more shocking than their total lack of contrition was the amount of support and defense they got from a lot of people in the poker community.

Multi-accounting, aside from being clearly against the terms and conditions of the poker sites, results in the significant likelihood of a player occupying two seats at the same table, which clearly violates the spirit of fairness of the game. It takes a great deal of imagination to contort the actions even into an ethical grey area, yet many were willing to outright excuse them.

Poker is a predatory game. The strong feed on the weak, and it feels like easy money. That situation is always going to attract an element who are willing to compromise or ignore ethics to make an extra buck. While I might think of myself as one of the good guys, I'm still some kind of a hustler, and it is a bit uncomfortable to be even remotely associated with cheaters and their apologists.

"You keep grinding out that rent money Joe. Its noble work you're doing."

Worm's pot-shot at Knish is for my desire to do something that has some value to society.


"Joey Knish is a NY legend. He's been a rounder, earning his living at cards, since he was 19."

Speaking of Knish, the quote that introduced him is for all of the young poker prodigies who dominate the 2+2 forums. I don't know how so many 18 and 19 year olds are so good at poker. And it can be easy to think that if they can make so much money, so can I. But I can't.

Some of those kids are truly great players who will make an excellent living from poker. Some of them are cheaters. Lots of them are decent players who have just gotten very lucky so far. Some of them will eventually be great players, and most of them will settle into the middle of the pack. And lots of what you read there are exaggerations or outright lies.

Whoever they are, comparing myself to them is only going to frustrate me. Like Max Ehrmann says "If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself."


"I'm not gonna fuckin' sit in the can and have my friend paying down my debt. I'm not a leech."

Worm is a liar, a cheat, and a felon, but not a leech! He won't take his friend's offer of $10,000 while he's in prison, but he'll run up $7,000 of debt on his friend's name without telling him once he gets out. Lester Murphy is a real man of principle.

I started to know it was time to move on as I've become more and more inclined to accept the generosity of friends and family. I very much appreciate their willingness to help me out, and I'd like to get myself to a point where I could help them out if they ever need it. I don't want to be a leech.


-"They took every fuckin' nickel."
-"I think I got 300 in my boot somewhere."

This desperate exchange between Mike and Worm after they got beat up by the cops is for the kind of desperation I don't want to reach. I've got some home equity that I could borrow against. I've got a 401k from my job that I could liquidate. But I couldn't really bring myself to that. It is just too desperate. Reaching for that $300 in my boot isn't going to solve my problems; it can only delay them.


-"I'm off it"
-"What you're getting cold cards?"
-"No man I quit"
-"What? Are you shitting me?"

Worm acted incredulous that Mike quit poker, but he knew that he'd get him back in the game. I don't think I'm going to totally quit poker, but I must admit that the idea of not playing for several months sounds very appealing. I imagine that some people might be a little shocked at that, but I don't think anyone should really be that surprised. We'll see.

"Just like a young man coming in for a quicky, I feel so unsatisfied."

Everything John Malkovich says in this movie is hilarious, including this line after he quickly loses $10,000 to Mike. Even though I have some bigger reasons for moving on from poker, I admit that I feel unsyyyyatisfied that poor results are part of what is pushing me away. I genuinely thought I could do a lot better than this. I don't like feeling defeated.


"Are you even going to get a job? Are you even going to look? Or are you going to go back to printing those credit cards again?"

I actually started coming to terms with the idea of getting a job a few weeks ago, but I can't quite bring myself to seriously start applying. I've done a bit of work on a generic resume, and I've perused a few job listings, but I haven't quite been able to really get going. Part of the problem is that I don't know exactly what I want to do, so anything I see I keep thinking maybe there's something better. And part of the problem is that I'm lazy.

"I don't know if I'm gonna bring my legal career to a crashing halt before it even starts, but I just can't help myself."

This quote introduces a great scene in the movie, where Mike McD walks into the judges' poker game and reads everyone's hands. This quote is for everyone who's ever had the thought "I don't know what I want to do, and I don't really want a job... guess I'll just go to law school." That thought crossed my mind, but I'm probably not going to follow through on it.

"Some people, pros even, won't play no-limit. They can't handle the swings."

This quote is for my reluctance to play no-limit. I started messing around with it a bit in the last few months, but after a great first week I never really found a comfort zone. Its a shame because NL should give more of an edge to good players than limit, and NL is so wildly popular these days that there is just so much money out there for the taking. But I can't get it.

I should also note that generally the swings in NL aren't as bad as the swings in limit, based on comparing your variance to your earn in both games.


"You're making a run at it aren't you? Rollin' up stake and going to Vegas?"

This quote is for my lack of interest in tournaments. Mike's ambition was to go play in the World Series of Poker. Even though tournaments give you the opportunity to make some huge scores and make a name for yourself, I haven't really put much effort into improving my tournament skills. Part of that was because I figured I was better off earning my hourly rate in a cash game rather than investing my time learning in a game where my expected earn was a lot lower initially. And part of that is because I haven't enjoyed most of the tournaments I've played, probably because I wasn't very good at them. Maybe now that I've got a bit of experience with the NL cash games, that will help my tournament play.


"Last night I sat down at this card table... I felt alive for the first time since I got busted at KGB's."

I haven't had that feeling about poker in a long time. Maybe it will come back.

Unlike Mike McD, I would know never to deliver this line to my girlfriend.


-"Summer clerkship in your office says I know what cards you're holding."
-"I don't bet with jobs like that... let's just say I'll put you at the top of the list"

This exchange between Mike and Judge Marinacci is for my looming job search, reminding me that landing a good job can be more about who you know than who you are. I know a few people who could probably help me get some good jobs in the same kind of business I left a year ago, but I want to see what else is out there.

"Your goal is to win one big bet an hour. That's it."
"Folks around here will tell you, you play for a living... it's like any other job."

These two quotes go together to make such an important point. It was easy to forget that while on a given night I might have won or lost hundreds or even thousands of dollars, I was really only making about $25 per hour. And for most of that time, I simply wasn't treating poker like a job. On paper I might have been a professional poker player, but really I was just an unemployed person with a poker hobby. Doyle Brunson might have been talking about me when he said "The whole problem with most players is that they want success without work. Their mental picture of a successful gambler is like the Hollywood image - some guy betting big money and doing nothing but win."


"The elders said I had a 40 year old's understanding of the midrash by the time I was 12. But by the time I was 13 I know I could never be a rabbi... because for all I understood of the Talmud, I never saw God there."

This is for the soul-searching and contemplation I've been able to do in all my free time. I've learned a lot about myself. My views have somewhat alienated me from some people in my family, but fortunately not to the same extent as Petrovsky. I agree with him that you have to be true to yourself, no matter what the cost.

That quote is also for the academic/career path I've taken so far. I breezed through school and landed what most would consider a very good job. I think I was regarded as a talent young up-and-comer, but like Professor Petrovsky I realized pretty quickly that it wasn't right for me. I tried to make it work for a while, but eventually I knew that I didn't belong there. He found a career in law that he "felt like he was truly born to do." I hope I'll find something that I feel as strongly about, but now I know that poker isn't it.